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2009/12/14 5:58:08
#1
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White lable branding

We once discussed in the forums and the dev lists about white label branding for those whom use ICMS for client installations and don't always want the ImpressCMS stuff pasted all over the place advertising to their clients and giving them the confusing option of multiple channels of support.

As a result the personalisation option was added to the admin so things could be changed a little easier along with the option to remove the ImpressCMS drop down menu and this is all fantastic, but......

I see we're still leaving in branding:

Enable iCMS Codes - Why, they are Bulletin Board Codes, so why not just BB Codes which is traditionally used. Do a websites end users need to be confused by what an iCMS code is?

In the site info block why do we still include the s_poweredby.gif above the recommend website button, I always change this to a little blue envelope.

In the admin there are a ton of cool and useful links back to the project for further wiki documentation, how can these be disabled or editable (without hacking the files) to link to a companies own link?

Excellent work on the latest release guys, I have missed a fair bit in the last couple of months even though I've kept up to date by reading the mails on the dev list.


2009/12/14 6:19:27
#2
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Re: White lable branding

Personally, I think we should be doing more brand-awareness instead of less.

Removing all the branding (even in the admin section) can easily lead to someone taking impressCMS and selling it as their own creation to unsuspecting customers. That wouldn't be fair.

I personally wouldn't invest programming time in making this a one-click affair.

Adding a page to the wiki describing what there is to do for those that really want to (for example changing links to the Wiki and such) seems to be the fastest and easiest solution.

_________________

Me on Ohloh


2009/12/14 8:20:34
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Re: White lable branding

Quote:

Personally, I think we should be doing more brand-awareness instead of less.



Really, well as a business user, private user and a person whom uses CMS's for clients I really hate making it easy for the competition to find out how the magic is made.

I provide sites to some people for free in return for our adverts being placed on their site which means I have to limit certain access in the admin area, if they easily knew they could do it themselves they could cut me the middle man out thus taking away the money I make from advertisers.

When I say competition I don't mean other developers I mean end users. I run a few communities within a niche market and some of the end users have their own sites normally done with moonfruits or something similar and compete against us, by making it easy for them to do the same as we do, we would no longer have the market lead or edge which makes us stand out.

Quote:

Removing all the branding (even in the admin section) can easily lead to someone taking impressCMS and selling it as their own creation to unsuspecting customers. That wouldn't be fair.



You really thunk if someone wanted to do that it would be hard to do as it is now?

was it popscripts did that ages ago with XOOPS......

Quote:

Adding a page to the wiki describing what there is to do for those that really want to (for example changing links to the Wiki and such) seems to be the fastest and easiest solution.



When you provide websites for people whom have no real tech knowledge and still one finger type giving them so much information overload is to much and could end up causing more support issues for the provider.

If they pay someone for support why confuse them with links to what would appear to be another company, project. They already pay for that support.

White Label Solutions are always good, even if it carried a premium to generate funds for the project.

Simples.....


2009/12/14 10:29:46
#4
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Re: White lable branding

PHPMyspaceGold anyone?


2009/12/14 12:36:20
#5
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Re: White lable branding

MrTheme, that's exactly what I was referring to (while not remembering the name) with 'selling' the icms codes as one's own.

@Tom: don't get me wrong, I'm all for people getting paid for stuff they do with ImpressCMS. That's one of the ways to create an ecosystem around ImpressCMS with themes, commercial support and the likes. And to grow, we need to develop that ecosystem of users and services.

However, I still believe that creating an official White label version is not a good idea, at least not at the moment. For one, there will be twice the amount of distributions for each version ('regular' zip, 'regular' tar.gz, 'white label' zip, 'white label' tar.gz) for 1.1.3 and also the same 4 files for 1.2. Also, getting a file released is quite a time-consuming process.
Another reason is that the support will become much more complicated, as you also double the releases that have to be tested and supported.

_________________

Me on Ohloh


2009/12/17 5:38:56
#6
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Re: White lable branding

Shame really, I had thought it was agreed on once already.

Still not sure why BB Code has ever been called XOOPS Code or iCMS code.........

Well because I don't always have time to remove those things from the code it either means I don't upgrade the sites as often or I go find another alternative to use.


2009/12/17 7:18:51
#7
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Re: White lable branding

Tom,

Changing CMS because of this would be unfortunate imo.

If you could details what bugs you specifically (Icms/Xoops Codes etc...), then we would have a view on what you would like to be changed.

Those could be looked into on a case per case basis, and some might be adapted in the core, but that won't be before 1.4.

As a temporary solution, I think that describing the necessary changes on a Wiki page would give you a nice scenario on what to adapt where.

If these changes are necessary and can't wait until 1.4, you could adapt an installation version of ImpressCMS this way and perform the upgrade for all the sites you manage starting from this altered version.

Cheers

_________________

Me on Ohloh


2009/12/17 7:27:59
#8
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Re: White lable branding

Essentially all thats needed is changing a back end logo (which can be done via admin) and changing some language defines.

Perhaps even a "white label" language option in installer at a later date?


2009/12/18 7:02:45
#9
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Re: White lable branding

Quote:

Changing CMS because of this would be unfortunate imo.

If you could details what bugs you specifically (Icms/Xoops Codes etc...), then we would have a view on what you would like to be changed.



I had already discussed this as a board member and as part of the management team when I was heading it up the other month, in fear of sounding repetitive it was simple little things which all accumulate to wasted time.

It's not a bug, it's things like:

XOOPS code
iCM Code

Which is really bulletin board code, ie BB Code, this is the universally understood abbreviation so I'm not sure why we're still branding in it, because every module uses its own constants it means changing it every time as well.

The inclusion of the non-editable powered by image within the site info block is also rather annoying with every release.

Non of this matters if your running a non competitive site, a non-profit site, a site relating to ICMS, open source, a general information site, etc, etc, but when you running a business, a shop, something where your competing to be better than others then you need that edge and making it more difficult for your competitors to find out your magic is key to staying ahead.

The same goes for when your providing a solution for end clients, by simple sticking a "we're FREE label all over it" kind of takes the edge away from them paying you to provide a solid solution unless they specifically ask for that solution.

And if your providing a solution for the end client they don't want fourth party branding all over it either, some don't even want second or third party branding all over it.

Why do you think MrThemes aka Will offers the option to remove his copyrights? It's because he understands his potential market often need to be private labelled in business.

I already edit the source every time to make these changes for my own sites (approx 17+ sites) and then client sites too but sometimes by the time I've finished upgrading all the sites a new release is out which then takes more time to do.

Quote:

However, I still believe that creating an official White label version is not a good idea, at least not at the moment. For one, there will be twice the amount of distributions for each version ('regular' zip, 'regular' tar.gz, 'white label' zip, 'white label' tar.gz) for 1.1.3 and also the same 4 files for 1.2. Also, getting a file released is quite a time-consuming process.
Another reason is that the support will become much more complicated, as you also double the releases that have to be tested and supported.



Just to back track on that, it wouldn't really be more time consuming it's just a simple bit of code to implement, If 1 do this else do that, then calling the function where required. It would only be as complicated as we choose to make it.

Quote:

Essentially all thats needed is changing a back end logo (which can be done via admin) and changing some language defines.

Perhaps even a "white label" language option in installer at a later date?



Thats the other easy option.

So the either a simple on/off switch, an alternate language file set or in-depth options to allow the admin to dynamically change the text and links in the DB (personally I think the third option would be taking it a little far but would also make it far easier).


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